with the fiscal cliff giving investors a reason to be less than optimistic? joining me is john, and carl, senior economi for deutsche bank. gentlemen, thank you for being here. start with the treasury secretary. the man in charge of our treasury is out telling everyone that the administration he works for is a part of is perfectly prepared to go over the fiscal cliff in order to raise a tax rate to 39.6%. does that make any sense to you? are you shocked, surprised? >> well, i guess i'm not surprised given we're in the early stages of the discussion, but for the economists and forecasters out there calling this is the fiscal slope, not a cliff or believe it's worthwhile to go over the cliff, it's not the case. it is, without a doubt, a cliff. it's $600 billion. the economy cannot withstand that shock. it's slowing in anticipation. lou: $6 billion in taxes? >> spending reductions and tax increases. the economy can't handle that. without a doubt, head into recession if we're over the cliff. lou: now, are you in agreement? >> i am, carl's absolely right, nevertheless, the markets have effectively be